Proof sequence 2a - Revision history

Mark at 06:32, 15 February 2017

2017-02-15T06:32:45Z

Mark at 20:44, 13 February 2017

2017-02-13T20:44:16Z

Mark at 19:09, 13 February 2017

2017-02-13T19:09:26Z

Mark at 01:07, 3 February 2017

2017-02-03T01:07:04Z

Mark at 22:46, 31 January 2017

2017-01-31T22:46:50Z

Mark at 21:43, 31 January 2017

2017-01-31T21:43:07Z

Mark at 20:43, 31 January 2017

2017-01-31T20:43:11Z

Mark: Created page with "{{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}}"

2017-01-31T19:05:22Z

Created page with "{{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}}"

New page

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 You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an [[original]]. [[Superimmortality]] predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have an identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of its original.
@@ Line 79: / Line 99: @@
-[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same consciousness.
+[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the [[cidentireplica]] not producing the same consciousness as the original.
 ;Assume that there can not be a change in matter of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. Result, you could not eat drink or breath without changing the consciousness produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
 ;Assume that there can not be a change in place and time of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. Result, you could not move without changing the consciousness produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
 :Assume that there can not be a change in continuity of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result there could be no periods of not being conscious because it is to big of a change in continuity produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
 ;Assume that there can not be an increase in speed of replacement of matter in the body without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result, replacement of whole body parts like legs, arms, organs, skin, would produce a different consciousness
 ;Assume that there can not be a change in continuousness of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. Result,
@@ Line 112: / Line 124: @@
 #experiments where the body stays the same but the structure and functioning changes which produces radically different behaviors, self identity, new memories, lost memories, new personality lost personalities repeating of the same behavior with the same structure and functioning
-first experiment argument for consciousness
+First experiment arguments for consciousness
 analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids,

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ;If two or more different bodies produce the same identical structure and functioning then they will also produce the same identical consciousness.
 ;Stating this in scientific terms: If two or more different bodies produce the same identical [[physapaths]] then they will also produce the same identical [[awarepaths]].
-;Analogies: If two or more different TVs, produce the same structure and functioning, then they will produce the identical TV shows. If two or more different computers, produce the same identical structure and functioning, then they will produce the same identical computer output.
+;Analogies: If two or more different TVs, produce the same structure and functioning, then they will produce the identical TV shows. If two or more different computers, produce the same identical structure and functioning, then they will produce the same identical computer output. If two different robots produce the same identical structure and functioning they will produce the same identical behavior. Computer controlled robots can become ever more complex to the point of, and beyond seemingly increasingly conscious. An identically structured and functioning system will produce the same evidence of being conscious and evidence of being identically conscious to its original.
 ===Why is this concept important?===
 The concept that [[Identical structures and functionings of matter]] produce identical consciousnesses is one of the founding principles of [[superimmortality]].
-Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output. simple, predictable, technological useful, scientifically understandable
+Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output. Electronic devices like TVs, computers, robots, would be useless because you could not predict or explain their behavior. Where would this incomprehensibility start? At the atomic level? At the molecular level? At he level of wires, resistors, capacitors, inductors, transistors?
-For electronics this is a founding principle. If it was not true electronics would be practically useless, because you would never know what you would have as out put from a TV or computer. The fact that you can have different matter in different places and times producing the same output by duplicating the structure and functioning of matter and energy, makes electronics very useful, predictable, understandable, and explainable.
+For electronics this is a founding principle. If it was not true electronics would be practically useless, because you would never know what you would have as output from a TV or computer. The fact that you can have different matter in different places and times producing the same output by duplicating the structure and functioning of matter and energy, makes electronics very useful, predictable, understandable, and explainable.
-===Proof sequence2a  or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===
+===Proof sequence2a  The principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===
 Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number [[rational experiments]] can be constructed where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.
 You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an [[original]]. [[Superimmortality]] predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have an identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of its original.
 <Br>different experiments repeating the experiments over and over with different questions

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ;If two or more different bodies produce the same identical structure and functioning then they will also produce the same identical consciousness.
-;Stating this in scientific terms: If two or more different bodies produce the same identical physapaths then they will also produce the same identical awarepaths.
+;Stating this in scientific terms: If two or more different bodies produce the same identical [[physapaths]] then they will also produce the same identical [[awarepaths]].
-;Analogies: If two or more different TVs, produce the same structure and functioning, then they will produce the identical TV shows. If two or more different computers, produce the same identical structure and functioning, then they will produce the same identical computers output.
+;Analogies: If two or more different TVs, produce the same structure and functioning, then they will produce the identical TV shows. If two or more different computers, produce the same identical structure and functioning, then they will produce the same identical computer output.
 ===Why is this concept important?===
 The concept that [[Identical structures and functionings of matter]] produce identical consciousnesses is one of the founding principles of [[superimmortality]].
-Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output.  simple, predictable, technological useful, scientifically understandable
+Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output. simple, predictable, technological useful, scientifically understandable
-For electronics this is a founding principle. If it was not true electronics would be practically useless, because you would never know what you would have as out put from a TV or computer. The fact that you can have different matter in a different places and times producing the same output by duplicating the structure and functioning of matter and energy, makes electronics very useful.
 ===Proof sequence2a  or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===
-Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.
+Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number [[rational experiments]] can be constructed where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.
-You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an original. Superimmortality predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have and identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of the original.
+You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an [[original]]. [[Superimmortality]] predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have an identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of its original.
 <Br>different experiments repeating the experiments over and over with different questions
@@ Line 23: / Line 24: @@
 Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc
-repeating with different matter
+Repeating with different matter
-repeating at a different place
+Repeating at a different place
-repeating at a different time
+Repeating at a different time
@@ Line 49: / Line 50: @@
 How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self.
-Lying about lying; At different points with different sensepaths the  lying about the actual consciousness produced can continue, but what happens when [[awareregions]] around a [[liesection]] about the consciousness being continues this lie. When do we accept or know the truth for certain about a falsification about the internal reference about a conscious aspect? It is easy if all of the [[awareregion]] around the lie twll us that it is a line then we have reason to believe this was a lie  you might find out the reasons for lying about the consciousness by investigating within larger and larger awareregions around this lie still the lie is part of the consciousness produced The lie might be a simple name change before for comic purposaes
+Lying about lying; At different points with different sensepaths the  lying about the actual consciousness produced can continue, but what happens when [[awareregions]] around a [[liesection]] about the consciousness being continues this lie. When do we accept or know the truth for certain about a falsification about the internal reference about a conscious aspect? It is easy if all of the [[awareregion]] around the lie will us that it is a line then we have reason to believe this was a lie  you might find out the reasons for lying about the consciousness by investigating within larger and larger awareregions around this lie still the lie is part of the consciousness produced The lie might be a simple name change before for comic purposes
 but it eliminates consciousnesses if a specific structure produce a specific behavior
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 <Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments
-[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same consciousness.
+[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same consciousness as the original;
 The original and cidentireplica will be producing the same behavior but different consciousnesses how different? unnoticeable   to attention grading where the consciousness is different from the behavior
 [[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same ixperiencitness.
-;Assume that there can not be a change in matter of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. result you could not eat drink or breath with out changing the consciousness
+;Assume that there can not be a change in matter of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result, you could not eat drink or breath without changing the ixperiencitness produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
-;Assume that there can not be a change in place and time of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. You could not move without changing the consciousness
+;Assume that there can not be a change in place of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result, you could not move without changing the ixperiencitness produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
-:Assume that there can not be a change in continuity of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. there could be no periods of not being conscious because it is to big of a change in continuity
+;Assume that there can not be a change in time of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result, you could not move through time without changing the ixperiencitness produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
-;Assume that there can not be an increase in speed of replacement of matter in the body without producing a change in ixperiencitness.
+;Assume that there can not be a change in continuity of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result there could be no periods of not being conscious because it is to big of a change in continuity produced by the identical structured and functioning body.
-;Assume that there can not be a change in continuousness of the brain without producing a change in consciousness.
+;Assume that there can not be an increase in speed of replacement of matter in the body without producing a change in ixperiencitness. Result, replacement of whole body parts like legs, arms, organs, skin, would produce a different consciousness
 Falsifiability for each case of the proposition versus Falsifiability for the proposition as a whole, the propositions can be 1. all cases are x, 2. almost all cases are x, 3. most cases are x, 4. some cases are x, 5. a few cases are x, 6. no cases are x.
 [[What produces consciousness argument]]
-You are consciousness and not a body argument
+[[You are consciousness and not a body argument]]
-You are the structure and functioning of a body and not a body argument
+[[You are the structure and functioning of a body and not a body argument]]
 #experiments where the body stays the same but the structure and functioning changes which produces radically different behaviors, self identity, new memories, lost memories, new personality lost personalities repeating of the same behavior with the same structure and functioning

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:07, 3 February 2017
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−	===Proof ~~sequence1a~~ or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===	+	===Proof sequence2a or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===

	Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.		Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
-===Proof sequence or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===
+===Proof sequence1a  or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses===
 Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an original. Superimmortality predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have and identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of the original.
 Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc
 Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from an earlier time in the life of the person with the same body will it be the same consciousness ixperiencitness will the person experience it if it in the body that is important then they should experience
 Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person will they experience it because it is in the same body or because it is the same stucture and functioning
 Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person then the structure and functioning now.  Shows that previous continuity of consciousness is not necessary
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 The structure and functioning of the brain does not give as good of insights into the consciousness produced by a brain as does actions such as speech describing the conscious experiences that a person is having
 When does the internal reference not from speech and other actions not refer to actual internal consciousness? When lying and when not conscious, but we can get greater insight into lying when we ask different questions at the same point in the structure and functioning.
 How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self.
@@ Line 46: / Line 56: @@
 Show through experiments that the same matter is not necessary for the production of the same behavior thus the same consciousness or is continuity or continuousness of the same body, matter, space, time or consciousness
 Same body very different structure and functioning (your friends s and f.) you have his memories his self identity This is evidence that the body's continuity and continuousness is not the important aspect of the self.
 <Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production, and experiments
@@ Line 60: / Line 65: @@
 <Br>Different experiments showing that this is experimentally and rationally true
 <Br> Analogy to TV, computer (the brain is a physical system as is the TV) (to expect the brain to be a none physical system needs proof) popular bias is for the brain to be supernatural with souls etc. so there can be life after death.
 These experiments are complex but not impossible to create and study.
 <Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments
@@ Line 80: / Line 86: @@
 You are consciousness and not a body argument
 first experiment argument for consciousness
 analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids,
 ;[[Increasing complexity argument]] start simple and increase the complexity of the device eventually it will be as or more complex than a brain, where does it become supernatural where there is no longer identical behavior or identical behavior does not mean evidence of identical consciousness.
 {{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}}

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-===Identical structure and functioning of matter produce identical consciousness===
+;If two or more different bodies produce the same identical structure and functioning then they will also produce the same identical consciousness.
-#What does this statement mean?
+===Why is this concept important?===
-#Why is this concept important?
+The concept that [[Identical structures and functionings of matter]] produce identical consciousnesses is one of the founding principles of [[superimmortality]].
-#Proof sequence
+Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output.  simple, predictable, technological useful, scientifically understandable

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:43, 31 January 2017
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		+
		+
		+	===Identical structure and functioning of matter produce identical consciousness===
		+
		+	#What does this statement mean?
		+	#Why is this concept important?
		+	#Proof sequence
		+
		+
		+
		+	<Br>different experiments repeating the experiments over and over with different question
		+	Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc
		+	Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from an earlier time in the life of the person with the same body will it be the same consciousness ixperiencitness will the person experience it if it in the body that is important then they should experience
		+	Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person will they experience it because it is in the same body or because it is the same stucture and functioning
		+	Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person then the structure and functioning now. Shows that previous continuity of consciousness is not necessary
		+
		+	This is a proof sequence is to show that a [[cidentireplica]] will produce the same [[awarepath]] as its [[original]] is, has, or will, produce.
		+
		+	Experiment: Given the originals body the structure and functioning is changed to that of a previous point in the original's life. Does the original still experience reality from this previous point in his life? The body self theorist would say that the original does experience this because the self is based on what the body experiences. The superimmortalist predicts that the original would because it has a structure and functioning that already produced this consciousness and the original experienced it, so it will again. The believer in souls would say that the souls is still there in this body so the original will experience it. The personality theorists will believe that it is the original because it has the original's personality but at an earlier point in the original's life. Now any set of different environmental conditions can be applied to the person and he will experience something different than he did the first time his body had this particular structure and functioning. Will he experience this variations in consciousness like he would have if it happened originally? The soul theorist can not predict the interaction between the soul and the functioning of the brain so it is useless in predictions. This process can go on for as long as the body stays alive. So this person can keep reverting back to this particular point in his life and then experience some other set of experiences. Well every set of different experiences produce a different consciousness? No, because the change in the experience and environment can be so small that there is no change in the functioning of the body /brain. The multitude of potential different physapaths can parallel the original's physapath indefinitely. So which of these possible physapath made awarepaths are you or are all of them potential you's?
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+	A body's Identical behavior does not necessitates the production of identical consciousness by that body Because there may be many different ways to produce the same behavior with different structures and functionings in a body.
		+	The structure and functioning of the brain does not give as good of insights into the consciousness produced by a brain as does actions such as speech describing the conscious experiences that a person is having
		+	When does the internal reference not from speech and other actions not refer to actual internal consciousness? When lying and when not conscious, but we can get greater insight into lying when we ask different questions at the same point in the structure and functioning.
		+	How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self.
		+
		+	Lying about lying; At different points with different sensepaths the lying about the actual consciousness produced can continue, but what happens when [[awareregions]] around a [[liesection]] about the consciousness being continues this lie. When do we accept or know the truth for certain about a falsification about the internal reference about a conscious aspect? It is easy if all of the [[awareregion]] around the lie twll us that it is a line then we have reason to believe this was a lie you might find out the reasons for lying about the consciousness by investigating within larger and larger awareregions around this lie still the lie is part of the consciousness produced The lie might be a simple name change before for comic purposaes
		+
		+	but it eliminates consciousnesses if a specific structure produce a specific behavior
		+
		+	How does a specific behavior eliminate certain consciousnesses? A person can not likely make up exact memories that he does not have. He can not have knowledge, skills abilities about things that he does not have. He can only pretend to know or speak a language.
		+
		+	Show through experiments that the same matter is not necessary for the production of the same behavior thus the same consciousness or is continuity or continuousness of the same body, matter, space, time or consciousness
		+
		+
		+
		+	Same body very different structure and functioning (your friends s and f.) you have his memories his self identity This is evidence that the body's continuity and continuousness is not the important aspect of the self.
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+	<Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production, and experiments
		+
		+	From [[Proof sequence 1 for superimmortality]] Identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior .
		+
		+	<Br>Different experiments showing that this is experimentally and rationally true
		+	<Br> Analogy to TV, computer (the brain is a physical system as is the TV) (to expect the brain to be a none physical system needs proof) popular bias is for the brain to be supernatural with souls etc. so there can be life after death.
		+	These experiments are complex but not impossible to create and study.
		+	<Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments
		+
		+	[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same consciousness.
		+	The original and cidentireplica will be producing the same behavior but different consciousnesses how different? unnoticeable to attention grading where the consciousness is different from the behavior
		+
		+
		+	[[Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality]] with the cidentireplica not producing the same ixperiencitness.
		+	;Assume that there can not be a change in matter of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. result you could not eat drink or breath with out changing the consciousness
		+	;Assume that there can not be a change in place and time of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. You could not move without changing the consciousness
		+	:Assume that there can not be a change in continuity of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. there could be no periods of not being conscious because it is to big of a change in continuity
		+	;Assume that there can not be an increase in speed of replacement of matter in the body without producing a change in ixperiencitness.
		+	;Assume that there can not be a change in continuousness of the brain without producing a change in consciousness.
		+
		+
		+	Falsifiability for each case of the proposition versus Falsifiability for the proposition as a whole, the propositions can be 1. all cases are x, 2. almost all cases are x, 3. most cases are x, 4. some cases are x, 5. a few cases are x, 6. no cases are x.
		+
		+	[[What produces consciousness argument]]
		+
		+	You are consciousness and not a body argument
		+	#experiments where the body stays the same but the structure and functioning changes which produces radically different behaviors, self identity, new memories, lost memories, new personality lost personalities repeating of the same behavior with the same structure and functioning
		+
		+
		+
		+	first experiment argument for consciousness
		+
		+	analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids,
		+	;[[Increasing complexity argument]] start simple and increase the complexity of the device eventually it will be as or more complex than a brain, where does it become supernatural where there is no longer identical behavior or identical behavior does not mean evidence of identical consciousness.
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+
	{{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}}		{{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}}