Difference between revisions of "Proof sequence 2a"
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| − | ===Proof | + | ===Proof sequence1a or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses=== |
Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined. | Given from [[proof sequence 1a]] that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined. | ||
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You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an original. Superimmortality predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have and identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of the original. | You are called the [[original]]. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A [[cidentireplica]] is a continuing identical replica of an original. Superimmortality predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical [[consciousness]] to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have and identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by [[proof sequence 1a]] it will also have an identical behavior to that of the original. | ||
| + | <Br>different experiments repeating the experiments over and over with different questions | ||
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Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc | Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc | ||
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| + | repeating with different matter | ||
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| + | repeating at a different place | ||
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Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from an earlier time in the life of the person with the same body will it be the same consciousness ixperiencitness will the person experience it if it in the body that is important then they should experience | Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from an earlier time in the life of the person with the same body will it be the same consciousness ixperiencitness will the person experience it if it in the body that is important then they should experience | ||
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Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person will they experience it because it is in the same body or because it is the same stucture and functioning | Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person will they experience it because it is in the same body or because it is the same stucture and functioning | ||
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Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person then the structure and functioning now. Shows that previous continuity of consciousness is not necessary | Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person then the structure and functioning now. Shows that previous continuity of consciousness is not necessary | ||
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| + | A body's Identical behavior does not necessitates the production of identical consciousness by that body Because there may be many different ways to produce the same behavior with different structures and functionings in a body. | ||
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The structure and functioning of the brain does not give as good of insights into the consciousness produced by a brain as does actions such as speech describing the conscious experiences that a person is having | The structure and functioning of the brain does not give as good of insights into the consciousness produced by a brain as does actions such as speech describing the conscious experiences that a person is having | ||
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When does the internal reference not from speech and other actions not refer to actual internal consciousness? When lying and when not conscious, but we can get greater insight into lying when we ask different questions at the same point in the structure and functioning. | When does the internal reference not from speech and other actions not refer to actual internal consciousness? When lying and when not conscious, but we can get greater insight into lying when we ask different questions at the same point in the structure and functioning. | ||
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How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self. | How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self. | ||
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Show through experiments that the same matter is not necessary for the production of the same behavior thus the same consciousness or is continuity or continuousness of the same body, matter, space, time or consciousness | Show through experiments that the same matter is not necessary for the production of the same behavior thus the same consciousness or is continuity or continuousness of the same body, matter, space, time or consciousness | ||
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Same body very different structure and functioning (your friends s and f.) you have his memories his self identity This is evidence that the body's continuity and continuousness is not the important aspect of the self. | Same body very different structure and functioning (your friends s and f.) you have his memories his self identity This is evidence that the body's continuity and continuousness is not the important aspect of the self. | ||
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<Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production, and experiments | <Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production, and experiments | ||
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<Br>Different experiments showing that this is experimentally and rationally true | <Br>Different experiments showing that this is experimentally and rationally true | ||
<Br> Analogy to TV, computer (the brain is a physical system as is the TV) (to expect the brain to be a none physical system needs proof) popular bias is for the brain to be supernatural with souls etc. so there can be life after death. | <Br> Analogy to TV, computer (the brain is a physical system as is the TV) (to expect the brain to be a none physical system needs proof) popular bias is for the brain to be supernatural with souls etc. so there can be life after death. | ||
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These experiments are complex but not impossible to create and study. | These experiments are complex but not impossible to create and study. | ||
<Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments | <Br> Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments | ||
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You are consciousness and not a body argument | You are consciousness and not a body argument | ||
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| + | You are the structure and functioning of a body and not a body argument | ||
| + | #experiments where the body stays the same but the structure and functioning changes which produces radically different behaviors, self identity, new memories, lost memories, new personality lost personalities repeating of the same behavior with the same structure and functioning | ||
first experiment argument for consciousness | first experiment argument for consciousness | ||
analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids, | analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids, | ||
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;[[Increasing complexity argument]] start simple and increase the complexity of the device eventually it will be as or more complex than a brain, where does it become supernatural where there is no longer identical behavior or identical behavior does not mean evidence of identical consciousness. | ;[[Increasing complexity argument]] start simple and increase the complexity of the device eventually it will be as or more complex than a brain, where does it become supernatural where there is no longer identical behavior or identical behavior does not mean evidence of identical consciousness. | ||
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{{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}} | {{See also: proof sequences for superimmortality}} | ||
Revision as of 18:46, 31 January 2017
Contents
Proof sequence 2a ---Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses
What does this statement mean?
- If two or more different bodies produce the same identical structure and functioning then they will also produce the same identical consciousness.
- Stating this in scientific terms
- If two or more different bodies produce the same identical physapaths then they will also produce the same identical awarepaths.
- Analogies
- If two or more different TVs, produce the same structure and functioning, then they will produce the identical TV shows. If two or more different computers, produce the same identical structure and functioning, then they will produce the same identical computers output.
Why is this concept important?
The concept that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses is one of the founding principles of superimmortality. Imagine if it was not true that two identically functioning TVs produced the same identical TV show. Or if when two or more different computers produce the same identical structure and functioning, but they did not produce the same identical computer output. simple, predictable, technological useful, scientifically understandable For electronics this is a founding principle. If it was not true electronics would be practically useless, because you would never know what you would have as out put from a TV or computer. The fact that you can have different matter in a different places and times producing the same output by duplicating the structure and functioning of matter and energy, makes electronics very useful.
Proof sequence1a or the principle that Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses
Given from proof sequence 1a that identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior, a number experiments can be imagined where the consciousness produced by a body can be determined.
You are called the original. You can be anyone, so anyone can be the original. The original is considered like the (0,0) position on a two dimensional graph. The original is like a starting point for considering variations to yourself. A cidentireplica is a continuing identical replica of an original. Superimmortality predicts that a cidentireplica will produce an identical consciousness to that of its original. The cidentireplica is defined to have and identical structure and functioning to that of the original thus by proof sequence 1a it will also have an identical behavior to that of the original.
different experiments repeating the experiments over and over with different questions
Experiment repeating the same structure and functioning in the same body using the same matter in the same place result identical behavior evidence of the same consciousness self identity memories etc
repeating with different matter
repeating at a different place
repeating at a different time
Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from an earlier time in the life of the person with the same body will it be the same consciousness ixperiencitness will the person experience it if it in the body that is important then they should experience
Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person will they experience it because it is in the same body or because it is the same stucture and functioning
Exp : Repeating the structure and functioning from all earlier times in the life of the person then the structure and functioning now. Shows that previous continuity of consciousness is not necessary
This is a proof sequence is to show that a cidentireplica will produce the same awarepath as its original is, has, or will, produce.
Experiment: Given the originals body the structure and functioning is changed to that of a previous point in the original's life. Does the original still experience reality from this previous point in his life? The body self theorist would say that the original does experience this because the self is based on what the body experiences. The superimmortalist predicts that the original would because it has a structure and functioning that already produced this consciousness and the original experienced it, so it will again. The believer in souls would say that the souls is still there in this body so the original will experience it. The personality theorists will believe that it is the original because it has the original's personality but at an earlier point in the original's life. Now any set of different environmental conditions can be applied to the person and he will experience something different than he did the first time his body had this particular structure and functioning. Will he experience this variations in consciousness like he would have if it happened originally? The soul theorist can not predict the interaction between the soul and the functioning of the brain so it is useless in predictions. This process can go on for as long as the body stays alive. So this person can keep reverting back to this particular point in his life and then experience some other set of experiences. Well every set of different experiences produce a different consciousness? No, because the change in the experience and environment can be so small that there is no change in the functioning of the body /brain. The multitude of potential different physapaths can parallel the original's physapath indefinitely. So which of these possible physapath made awarepaths are you or are all of them potential you's?
A body's Identical behavior does not necessitates the production of identical consciousness by that body Because there may be many different ways to produce the same behavior with different structures and functionings in a body.
The structure and functioning of the brain does not give as good of insights into the consciousness produced by a brain as does actions such as speech describing the conscious experiences that a person is having
When does the internal reference not from speech and other actions not refer to actual internal consciousness? When lying and when not conscious, but we can get greater insight into lying when we ask different questions at the same point in the structure and functioning.
How do we know if the person is conscious of what they are saying or how they behaving? duplicating a known consciousness producing structure and functioning such as your self.
Lying about lying; At different points with different sensepaths the lying about the actual consciousness produced can continue, but what happens when awareregions around a liesection about the consciousness being continues this lie. When do we accept or know the truth for certain about a falsification about the internal reference about a conscious aspect? It is easy if all of the awareregion around the lie twll us that it is a line then we have reason to believe this was a lie you might find out the reasons for lying about the consciousness by investigating within larger and larger awareregions around this lie still the lie is part of the consciousness produced The lie might be a simple name change before for comic purposaes
but it eliminates consciousnesses if a specific structure produce a specific behavior
How does a specific behavior eliminate certain consciousnesses? A person can not likely make up exact memories that he does not have. He can not have knowledge, skills abilities about things that he does not have. He can only pretend to know or speak a language.
Show through experiments that the same matter is not necessary for the production of the same behavior thus the same consciousness or is continuity or continuousness of the same body, matter, space, time or consciousness
Same body very different structure and functioning (your friends s and f.) you have his memories his self identity This is evidence that the body's continuity and continuousness is not the important aspect of the self.
Analogy to TV, computer, production, and experiments
From Proof sequence 1 for superimmortality Identical structure and functioning produce identical behavior .
Different experiments showing that this is experimentally and rationally true
Analogy to TV, computer (the brain is a physical system as is the TV) (to expect the brain to be a none physical system needs proof) popular bias is for the brain to be supernatural with souls etc. so there can be life after death.
These experiments are complex but not impossible to create and study.
Analogy to TV, computer, production and repeated production of objects, events, processes, etc., and experiments
Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality with the cidentireplica not producing the same consciousness. The original and cidentireplica will be producing the same behavior but different consciousnesses how different? unnoticeable to attention grading where the consciousness is different from the behavior
Reductio ad absurdum arguments for superimmortality with the cidentireplica not producing the same ixperiencitness.
- Assume that there can not be a change in matter of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. result you could not eat drink or breath with out changing the consciousness
- Assume that there can not be a change in place and time of the brain without producing a change in consciousness. You could not move without changing the consciousness
- Assume that there can not be a change in continuity of the brain without producing a change in ixperiencitness. there could be no periods of not being conscious because it is to big of a change in continuity
- Assume that there can not be an increase in speed of replacement of matter in the body without producing a change in ixperiencitness.
- Assume that there can not be a change in continuousness of the brain without producing a change in consciousness.
Falsifiability for each case of the proposition versus Falsifiability for the proposition as a whole, the propositions can be 1. all cases are x, 2. almost all cases are x, 3. most cases are x, 4. some cases are x, 5. a few cases are x, 6. no cases are x.
What produces consciousness argument
You are consciousness and not a body argument
You are the structure and functioning of a body and not a body argument
- experiments where the body stays the same but the structure and functioning changes which produces radically different behaviors, self identity, new memories, lost memories, new personality lost personalities repeating of the same behavior with the same structure and functioning
first experiment argument for consciousness
analogies examples with TVs, computers, robots, androids,
- Increasing complexity argument start simple and increase the complexity of the device eventually it will be as or more complex than a brain, where does it become supernatural where there is no longer identical behavior or identical behavior does not mean evidence of identical consciousness.
See also: Proof sequences list,
- Proof sequence 1 for superimmortality This is a proof sequence that a cidentireplica will produce the same behaviorpath as its original is, has, or will, produce. (Behavior related proofs)
- Proof sequence 1a - Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical behaviors.
- Proof sequence 1b - Close enough approximate structures and functionings of matter produce identical behaviors.
- Proof sequence 1c - Percentage wise different enough structures and functionings of matter produce percentage wise different behaviors.
- Proof sequence 1d - Very different structures and functionings of matter will usually produce very different behaviors.
- Proof sequence 1e - The variations of the structures and functionings of matter can be mapped to the variations in behaviors.
- Proof sequence 1f - Enhancements to structure and functioning of a body can enhance the behavior produced by the body.
- Proof sequence 2 for superimmortality This is a proof sequence is to show that a cidentireplica will produce the same awarepath as its original is, has, or will, produce. (Consciousness related proofs)
- Proof sequence 2a - Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses.
- Proof sequence 2b - Close enough approximate structures and functionings of matter produce identical consciousnesses.
- Proof sequence 2c - Percentage wise different enough structures and functionings of matter produce percentage wise different consciousnesses.
- Proof sequence 2d - Very different structures and functionings of matter will usually produce very different consciousnesses.
- Proof sequence 2e - The variations of the structures and functionings of matter can be mapped to the variations in consciousness.
- Proof sequence 2f - Enhancements to structure and functioning of a body can enhance the consciousness produced by the body.
- Proof sequence 3 for superimmortality This is a proof sequence that a cidentireplica will produce the same ixperiencitness as its original is, has, or will, produce. (Ixperiencitness related proofs)
- Proof sequence 3a - Identical structures and functionings of matter produce identical ixperiencitnesses.
- Proof sequence 3b - Close enough identity of structures and functionings of matter will produce identical ixperiencitnesses.
- Proof sequence 3c - Certain structures and functionings of matter will produce different consciousnesses but will still produce identical ixperiencitnesses
- Proof sequence 3d - Percentage wise different enough structures and functionings of matter will produce percentage wise different ixperiencitnesses.
- Proof sequence 3e - Very different structures and functionings of matter will produce very different ixperiencitnesses.
- Proof sequence 3f - The variations to the structures and functionings of matter can be mapped to the variations in ixperiencitnesses.
- Proof sequence 3g - Enhancements to structure and functioning of a body can enhance the ixperiencitness produced by a body.
Proof sequences list, Proof sequence 1 for superimmortality, Proof sequence 2 for superimmortality, Proof sequence 3 for superimmortality, Proof sequence 1a, Proof sequence 1b, Proof sequence 1c, Proof sequence 1d, Proof sequence 1e, Proof sequence 1f, Proof sequence 2a, Proof sequence 2b, Proof sequence 2c, Proof sequence 2d, Proof sequence 2e, Proof sequence 2f, Proof sequence 3a, Proof sequence 3b, Proof sequence 3c, Proof sequence 3d, Proof sequence 3e, Proof sequence 3f, Proof sequence 3g
